Read the transcript of this show below
Annelise Riles [00:00:03]
Welcome to the Breaking Boundaries podcast. I'm Annelise Riles,
executive director of Northwestern University's Roberta Buffett
Institute for Global Affairs. The Northwestern Buffett Institute is
dedicated to breaking through traditional silos of expertise in
geography, culture and language to surface novel solutions to pressing
global challenges. This spring, we have been focusing on the United
Nations Sustainable Development Goal 16, which is peace, justice and
strong institutions. Today's guest, Romain Murenzi, says building
scientific capacity is essential to strong institutions and supporting
problem solving innovation, especially in developing nations. Dr.
Murenzi is executive director of the World Academy of Sciences, a
multilateral organization administered by the United Nations
Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization and funded by the
Italian government. And it supports scientists and scientific innovation
in the Global South. Welcome Romain and thank you so much for being
here today.
Romain Murenzi [00:01:12] Thank you. Thank you for this invitation.
Annelise Riles [00:01:14] Let's start a little bit
with your personal journey as a scientist. You were born in Rwanda,
raised as a refugee in Burundi, and started your career as a high school
math teacher in the early 1980s in rural Burundi. Can you tell us a
little bit what your life was like as a child and where the spark to
study science and physics came from?
Romain Murenzi [00:01:34] Thank you very much. Thank
you. And my family was exiled in Burundi in the early sixties. I did my
primary school, secondary school and college in Burundi. So growing up
as a as a refugee in Bujumbura, the capital city, there were two
cultural centers there, the French Cultural Center and the American
Culture Center. Centre Culture America, Centre Culture Frances. And we
used to go there and had opportunity to get access to books. In the
American one actually, there were many books of scientists, Thomas
Edison and other scientists, Albert Einstein, you know, history of
physics and science and space. That gave me actually a dream. To be a
scientist. And also in the French one, I was able to have a chance to
read The Life of Marie Curie, you know, how she traveled from Poland and
went to France. And this kind of story, when I was really in what I
would call middle school, interested me a lot. But it happened also that
I was very lucky. I was good in math during throughout my high school. I
was the best kids in math. That was all I did in the fact that I wanted
really to do science. So basically I could say that sparked me to do
science. And then later in life, when I finished my bachelor's degree, I
wanted to learn to be a math teacher. After my my bachelor's degree in
mathematics, rather than having a job at the university, I was sent in
rural area to teach mathematics, you know, an all girl school. And a
year later, I was brought back to the capital to teach the best two
schools in the country. It's a long story, but I ended up actually being
the best math teacher of the country during that that period. And
during that period also, I tried to get a scholarship for a period
because as a refugee, I could not get a PhD from the government. I could
not even be having a teaching assistantship. So, basically, after three
years of struggling, I was able to get a scholarship to go to the
Catholic University of Louvain, in Louvain I had a chance for tremendous
growth, not only scientifically, but as a human, as a person, because
the environment was really good. They gave me an opportunity to travel
actually with my work in mathematical physics, I was given an
opportunity to very early on to go to King's College of London, Queen
Mary College. I went to to Rome. I visited cities such as Marseilles,
Bordeaux and Paris. I had a chance to benefit from the European
mobility, and that really made me not only a mathematical physicist, but
also at the same time also to know Europe. Also, I'm not European, but
you feel that you are a European. Whatever I went, I was actually
received very well. I didn't even remember that I was a I was African or
black in some sense because I was embedded in this young European when
we were discussing mathematics and physics. That was really very
interesting. And then in 1990, I had a job in Paris at the University of
Paris to be a teaching assistant, but also to do research. I spent six
months in Paris and then I got a postdoc in Toulouse, the south of
France. But you have a lot of science institutions. I got a job in this
European center called .... European Center for Advanced Computation and
Research in scientific computation. Actually, it was one of the best
scientific computation in Europe, and I was the only African there. So
during that period I learned not only to link mathematical physics and
computation, this is what actually two years later, in 1992, give me an
opportunity to be hired at a newly created center for NSF, the Center
for Theoretical Studies of Physical Systems at Clark Atlanta University,
which is an HBCU historically black college. From 1992 to 2001. And
that is I had an opportunity for growth not only scientifically, but
also, again, as a human being by the end of the decade. By. By 2001,
actually, nine years later, I had become a U.S. citizen. I had become a
chair of the physics department. But also I was a full professor of
physics. At the time my second dream, which was to work for my country
of origin, seemed to be very, very far. But I was very wrong. In 2001 in
the spring, I received a call, somebody asking me, saying that the
government of Rwanda was inquiring if I was interested in being a
minister of education of the country.
Annelise Riles [00:06:07] What an incredible story.
And just imagining you as a middle school student already able to read
both French and English and I imagine speaking at least one or two other
languages. What a remarkable talent you were even at that age. Tell us a
little bit, why did you choose to return to Rwanda when you were
invited? What was it that drew you away from this wonderful position as
chair of a physics department in the United States.
Romain Murenzi [00:06:33] After the genocide against
the Tutsi in 1984, basically many young people who actually dreamed
about returning back to their country of birth, actually, there was a
massive return of exiled Rwandans from all over the world, in particular
from the the neighboring countries, Burundi, Democratic Republic of the
Congo, Tanzania, Uganda, but also many actually Rwandans who left their
safe positions in in Europe and in North America to return back to
Rwanda. Even a friend of mine, Dr. Charles Mulligan, there was a
professor at Howard University and decided just to return to return
back. So from 1984, I continue to think how can I do to help? So in
1996, in February, actually in the spring, Mrs. Claire Richardson, the
CEO of the DFA, DFA, the Delta Force, the Gorilla Fund International,
and I visited Rwanda at the University of Rwanda to see how we can help.
I was sponsored by the ... And also Clark Atlanta University. During
that historic visit, actually, I visited, I observed two things in terms
of infrastructure. The building were okay. However, the books in the
computing facility were destroyed. In particular, all the computers were
stolen. Secondly, most of the teachers were foreign. There were still
teachers from neighboring countries because most teachers, Rwandan
teachers or they were killed or the they were the killers. So, imagine
some of the teachers killed their own colleagues, the things that's how
mad the madness of the genocide was. And then, so I could see that, and
when they returned back to the U.S., I send a note to my other the
Rwandan community, what they saw. And since that time, I will go to
Rwanda to teach a class in physics every summer. And I think that may
have caught the attention of the government, because not many people
were coming to do that. To bring some books, you know, like we do, like
the Boy Scouts you know. Sometimes I tell people from Diaspora, you
don't need to wait until you bring a big lab. Just go there and do
something every year. So, I did that even when when I go to Rwanda, I
will jump in Burundi and give a seminar. So then and again, that's where
in 2001, when I received a call, actually, I didn't hesitate for two
reasons, actually, when I received the call, I said probably this is the
right time. And not only I have published enough. So I thought I was
already a full professor, but most importantly because of that, among
the exiles, the returnees, when my my sibling, there were seven siblings
who are living in Burundi with with that their families have returned.
And each time I went there, I could see them how they were struggling,
you know. So I said this give me not only opportunity to work for your
country, but also to be to be with my siblings for quite some time. So
then I requested the university, Clark Atlanta University, to give me a
leave of absence for two years. Actually, when I left, I thought I going
to stay for two years, but I stayed for eight years.
Annelise Riles [00:09:41] That's incredible. I love
that idea that we can just do a good action every day. We don't have to
wait for the great bolt of lightning. Tell us a little bit now about the
World Academy of Sciences and your work there.
Romain Murenzi [00:09:56] So as you know, the the
World Academy of Sciences was created in 1983 by Abdulsalam. To
understand the the World Academy of Science, you need to understand
Abdulsalam. Abdelsalam was a physicist from Pakistan. He's a muslim, but
come from from a small sect in that from that country, which brings
also challenges of integration in his own culture. When he returned back
home, actually, he was not be integrated. He was not integrated. And I
think at some point, even his life was threatened. So as a young man, he
decided to return back to the UK. It happened that he had a vision. So
he decided, as in 1964, to start the International Center for
Theoretical Physics ... He had the idea, and then he worked with other
scientists here and there who helped him to do that. His idea was that I
was not able to stay in my own country. If I could create a center
where scientists from the developing country could come and spend some
time and return back home would be a very good thing. So he decided to
create the Academy with the idea of being a voice for science, for the
developing world, and also advancing science in the developing world.
The Academy is going to celebrate 40 years next year. So this is
something that is actually very, very rare, very interesting. So this
means that advancing science in the developing world there, it has two
components. The first component, you have some kind of programs, but
also you have also actions, programs of building science capacity in the
south PhD program. We have what we call South-South Fellowship Program,
China, India, Malaysia, South Africa, Brazil. And now Turkey is joining
these countries that have made it the country of the south, that has
made it to development. These countries are donating fellowships for
PhD. Now we have more than 100,200 student doing PhD in the centers in
the South. So we call it South-South Fellowship Program, but we have
also what we call mobility. We want somebody who is in a lab in the
South to come in the north and spend one, 2 to 3 months. When I say the
North means develop developed countries.
Annelise Riles [00:11:59] Tell us what kind of
engagement can we universities in the Global North have? How can we
contribute to this really important effort that you're making?
Romain Murenzi [00:12:09] So there are two ways that
could be contribute with a program called Expert, somebody from the
North, we will go to Africa and spend one, 2 to 3 months in a particular
university. He can teach. He can give support in terms of capacity
building, institutional capacity building. But what is very important if
if the person, for example, he links with a professor in Burundi, for
example, or in Benin, that professor, they can work together and publish
together. So once a person has left, actually, he leaves something
there. And we have concrete examples, but also a mobility. Mobility
means that you could invite somebody to spend one month at the
university. A PhD sometimes is difficult because there is the brain
drain. But if somebody can come and spend one month, 2 to 3 months, it
would be good. For example, if your institution, the the Buffett
Institute, for example, who like to sponsor some young scientist to come
in and spend some time on the issue related to sustainable development
and in their own area of, of expertise, chemistry, biology but you link
with some of your programs that will be very good.
Annelise Riles [00:13:15] Let me just ask you
finally a question that I ask all of my guests, which is, as you think
about the future, what keeps you up at night? What are you most worried
about? But also, what are you most hopeful for.
Romain Murenzi [00:13:30] For these days of the
COVID 19 my worry is there is another pandemic. Africa and many poor
countries have already basically lost two years of learning. If that
happened again, they may it may slide and lose more years of learning,
and that may have really, really impact on achieving the sustainable
development goals. So that part of me worries these days, and this is
why I think that time investment in broadband is very important. During
my time as a Minister of Education in Science in the world, I was trying
to promote computers in schools. But people say you don't need a
computer, you need to build the classroom. So people thought that
classroom was more important, but you realize actually even to have the
book is not easy in those countries, but if you have a computer, you can
store all the books that you want. My son, he went to school every day
online. Like if he was in the classroom, he didn't miss a class. And so
other kids in in Europe and in mostly in North America and other
developed places. But when I think about the other ones, countries as
Benin, Cameroon and other places, this kid didn't have that. And that
can be very dramatic if that happened again. Yeah, but my my second
thing is, is also because now people think that science is very
important. Actually, over the years, we have understood the importance
that science actually is important. If you want to reduce poverty, you
need to grow your economy and you cannot grow your economy if you don't
invest in science and technology. So that is something that is very,
very important. So I will finish with with one example. In the early
2000, before 2000, the coffee of Rwanda was fetching at the market,
probably $0.5 per kilo. And there was this U.S. aid program, a project
with Michigan State University and Texas A&M University and the
University of Rwanda for washing coffee, a station. A coffee washing
station is an appropriate technology. It is a very well known
technology. However, for the farmers of East Africa, in Central Africa,
Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda this technology was not known or they didn't
have access to it. So giving them access to that technology created a
whole new way of seeing things and doing things in innovation. So having
washing the coffee, drying it properly, sorting the beans, the coffee
went from $0.5 to $5 per kilo, sometimes $10 per kilo. Even the coffee
of Rwanda going into the shelves of Costco and and Starbucks. This means
that from a farmer who has 1000 kilo going from $500 to $5000 even to
more than that, you cherish completely the life of people. So this means
that with tremendous economic growth during that period, just based on
that small example, because the technology is applied. So there is there
are a lot of technologies that exist already in the US. You need to
create new technologies because you have almost used all these
technologies. But in the Global South, in the least developed countries,
these technologies have not been used. If they can be harnessed and be
used, that can change the life of people. So in that that's really
that's my hope to continue to do that. Yeah.
Annelise Riles [00:16:52] Well, what a fantastic
story. Roman Murenzi, you are a remarkable example of the change that
science can bring to the world. And we're so grateful for you being here
today. Thank you so much.
Romain Murenzi [00:17:05] Thank you. Thank you, Annelise.
Annelise Riles [00:17:09] For more information on
this episode and on the Northwestern Buffett Institute for Global
Affairs, visit us at Buffett.northwestern.edu
